Digital Nexus

1 | The Digital Introduction

Chris Sinclair and Mark Monfort Season 1 Episode 1

Kicking things off with a bang!

In this inaugural episode, we dive headfirst into the dynamic world of digital disruption. Join our hosts Chris Sinclair (Digital Village) and Mark Monfort (NotCentralised) as they share their experiences and insights on revolutionary tech advancements, including the impact of generative AI and large language models. Discover how AI is reshaping industries, the rise of digital spaces for startups, and the evolution of technologies like blockchain.

Highlights:
🔹 The revolutionary influence of GUI and ChatGPT
🔹 The journey from fun AI applications to serious workflow tools.
🔹 The rise and hype cycles of blockchain and AI technologies.
🔹 Introduction to "SIKE," a privacy-focused AI tool the hosts use alongside other AI solutions.

We also dive into content for future episodes like diving into the capabilities of tools like Claude 3.5 Sonnet and more.

Get ready for engaging discussions, expert perspectives, and a sneak peek into the future of digital innovation. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and stay tuned for more episodes exploring the frontiers of technology!

 Mark Monfort had some big ideas, and knew how take advantage of the latest technologies to benefit these ideas and customers. The successful @AusDefi Association was started, shortly followed by Not Centralised, focusing on blockchain fin-tech. But it didn't end there, AI entered the market, and now Mark is building the ultimate #LLM, SIKE.ai, focused on enriching business workflow and security of data/content. He can't be stopped.

Chris Sinclair, a few of you know this guy's wealth of knowledge for design and UX/CX and business strategy, especially in the realm of digital innovation and the emerging technologies we're seeing used more and more.  Partnered with Digital Village, a network of specialists leading way for product development and innovation, his goal is to show how the traditional ways of working no longer apply!



Other Links
🎙️our podcast links here: https://digitalnexuspodcast.com/
👤Chris on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcsinclair/
👤Mark on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/markmonfort/
👤 Mark on Twitter - https://twitter.com/captdefi

SHOWNOTE LINKS
🔗 SIKE - https://sike.ai/
🌐Digital Village - https://digitalvillage.network/
🌐NotCentralised - https://www.notcentralised.com/

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DigitalNexusPodcast
X (twitter): @DigitalNexus

<b>[Music]</b><b>It is visible, pretty good.</b><b>And it's a correct</b><b>way, so not temporalizing.</b><b>Digital village.</b><b>We didn't really have anything to put up</b><b>on screen, because we</b><b>have been running around.</b><b>Really not prepared for this, but I think</b><b>this is a good quote.</b><b>We use it in our slide deck and stuff.</b><b>In my career, I have seen two tech demos</b><b>that struck me as revolutionary.</b><b>The GUI and chat GPT.</b><b>You meant GUI, but yeah, GUI's fine.</b><b>Yeah, bloody GUI.</b><b>Yeah, the GUI, you know, the...</b><b>I read as is.</b><b>Okay, Chris reads</b><b>whatever is on the screen.</b><b>He is Ron Burgundy. Chris Burgundy.</b><b>Yeah, that's it.</b><b>Go f yourself, San Diego.</b><b>But yeah, Bill Bullgate said that, so</b><b>it's pretty important stuff.</b><b>There's an AI event tonight. The data</b><b>science in AI Australia is running.</b><b>And I think within a week of opening, it</b><b>already filled out 140</b><b>people have signed up,</b><b>and there's a wait list</b><b>that's downstairs tonight.</b><b>And in this building, right?</b><b>In this building?</b><b>Stone and chalk, starter pub.</b><b>It's fish burners.</b><b>In fish burners?</b><b>Yeah, I don't think I</b><b>can say that word in here.</b><b>Apologies. We're filming in Stone and</b><b>Chalk, and we love</b><b>Stone and Chalk and stuff,</b><b>but we do go to the other events.</b><b>It's fine.</b><b>It's fine. I'm not going to turn into a</b><b>flame, you know, from saying the words.</b><b>It's a start-up environment. This whole</b><b>building is built around start-ups,</b><b>fish burners, part of that ecosystem.</b><b>You go to Stone and Chalk.</b><b>You go to level one,</b><b>the city start-up pub.</b><b>Yeah, it's a great space.</b><b>It's awesome.</b><b>If you're starting up and stuff, like</b><b>literally, it's a place that you can go</b><b>and get free internet.</b><b>It's government funded.</b><b>It's a free space for you to find</b><b>somewhere to do some work.</b><b>You can have your whole team there taking</b><b>up all the space so no</b><b>one else can find seats,</b><b>but it is awesome.</b><b>Yeah, yeah, what he said.</b><b>So, I guess the point of this podcast is</b><b>for us to talk about digital disruption.</b><b>That's the key thing for us.</b><b>Exactly, right.</b><b>Now, why don't we get started in terms of</b><b>like, this is supposed to be an intro.</b><b>I don't know if that is all part of the</b><b>intro or it's going to go into bloopers.</b><b>I think it could be intro. I</b><b>think that's quite important.</b><b>I think we start off telling everyone who</b><b>we are and how we like to work,</b><b>get a vibe of our personalities.</b><b>Is that how you say that?</b><b>Yeah, or too much of personality.</b><b>Too much.</b><b>I've been told.</b><b>But how did you...</b><b>PhD.</b><b>Well, before we get to like what you do,</b><b>like given that a strong</b><b>topic right now is like</b><b>generative AI, how did</b><b>that come about for you?</b><b>Where were you in November 2022?</b><b>I was there like as it</b><b>launched in the internet,</b><b>seeing the social platforms</b><b>absolutely go berserk you.</b><b>And I was like, I need to get</b><b>involved in this. What is it?</b><b>I loaded it up.</b><b>I got my free account, typed in a few</b><b>things, and then I</b><b>didn't touch it for a month as</b><b>the news continued to roll out about how</b><b>it was going to take</b><b>everyone's jobs and disrupt</b><b>the whole world.</b><b>And here we are today.</b><b>I remember it was like kind of funny</b><b>because people were doing</b><b>funny things, like not the</b><b>workflow stuff.</b><b>It's like, hey, make the national anthem</b><b>sound like it was made by pirate or Homer</b><b>Simpson doing it.</b><b>It was all the fun stuff at the start.</b><b>I mean, that's how it comes out, right?</b><b>It's you start with the fun things.</b><b>It definitely wasn't anything that could</b><b>be integrated into work and business.</b><b>It was all done for</b><b>personal fun as an initial launch.</b><b>And yeah, like the internet</b><b>as it does made a meme of it.</b><b>It was fantastic.</b><b>Maybe that's how like a lot of these</b><b>other apps should start.</b><b>Just do something fun at first.</b><b>You're going to do a</b><b>Salesforce type thing.</b><b>Make it fun.</b><b>Hey, it's CRM for kids.</b><b>I think chat GPT, the CRM for children.</b><b>Have fun guys.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then like afterwards</b><b>you go, Hey, hang on a second.</b><b>This is like a workflow tool as well.</b><b>So I don't know.</b><b>That's what it's become kind of, I would</b><b>say that it's it is</b><b>become, let's be real.</b><b>AI has been around in its general form</b><b>for quite a while, right?</b><b>Like it's chat GPT is revolutionary.</b><b>It came in a point off the back of a huge</b><b>tech boom around</b><b>crypto, around blockchain.</b><b>Like that was, you know, that was now on</b><b>the back end of that trending down and</b><b>everyone's looking</b><b>for the next big thing.</b><b>AI comes along, feels in</b><b>that bubble really nicely.</b><b>You know, the, the Gartner hype cycles.</b><b>Yeah, that's it.</b><b>You have the curve.</b><b>I think for blockchain,</b><b>like it, it hits peak hype.</b><b>So people don't know, like we start off</b><b>like we're going this way, I guess.</b><b>Oh no, this way is fine on camera.</b><b>No, that's the wrong way.</b><b>I've got the camera.</b><b>The camera is inverted, but when you see</b><b>it, it'll be normal.</b><b>And yeah, this is why I'm</b><b>so bad at special stuff.</b><b>But in any case, if you're going from</b><b>left to right, it would be that you have</b><b>the peak curve first and then you get to</b><b>the trough of disillusionment before you</b><b>have the maturity curve.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And it's lower in terms</b><b>of the hype that's there.</b><b>If hype is measured on the Y axis.</b><b>And so the hype in</b><b>blockchain is now maturing out.</b><b>It's not as strong as it was, I would say</b><b>before, because more</b><b>mainstream groups coming in.</b><b>But with the AI hype, that's really at</b><b>this strongest kind of phase.</b><b>And now we're starting to, I don't think</b><b>we've seen a dip yet.</b><b>I think it's still very much the strong,</b><b>strong hype with valuations of companies</b><b>and what, and video lost six, six point,</b><b>whatever it was percentage points, which</b><b>is like nothing for most companies.</b><b>And that was like nearly</b><b>over half a billion dollars.</b><b>They just overtaken Microsoft.</b><b>Yeah, they had just like in terms of just</b><b>not anymore huge amount of</b><b>ridiculous amount of money.</b><b>And then within a week, yeah, lost that</b><b>six billion or so dollars.</b><b>And now they're just</b><b>sitting a little bit under them.</b><b>Yeah, I don't feel bad.</b><b>I don't feel I think it's like it's a</b><b>billion out of the hundred plus that it</b><b>is like it's it's I know the world is like, oh my God.</b><b>They've dropped market shares.</b><b>Like, it's fine.</b><b>It's like a couple percent.</b><b>It's fine.</b><b>Um, no fun facts, psych, which is an app</b><b>that we have built and</b><b>we'll talk about on the show.</b><b>I don't know if we'll do it on this one,</b><b>but we'll definitely talk about it like</b><b>much more, maybe even</b><b>showcase some stuff.</b><b>But it's an Nvidia inception partner.</b><b>So they've got this inception program for</b><b>startups that you can become part of and</b><b>you get all this support from Nvidia.</b><b>And it means something because they have</b><b>to actually choose you to be part of it.</b><b>So let's let's start</b><b>with the sneaky plugs.</b><b>Tell us about psych.</b><b>Okay, so psych it stands for secure,</b><b>intelligent knowledge, elephant.</b><b>No, I feel like you</b><b>just made all that up.</b><b>I did not actually.</b><b>So so we can we can blame our thank.</b><b>I mean, Nick Bishop, who is a partner</b><b>over at not centralized, he's focusing on</b><b>a whole heap of other work and stuff at</b><b>the moment, but he'll</b><b>just grow this thing.</b><b>And late last year, not late last year,</b><b>sorry, mid last year when we were going</b><b>down this journey, we were already using</b><b>like like you were using chat, GPT early</b><b>on and training people on</b><b>how to do stuff with it.</b><b>And then we decided to</b><b>actually build something.</b><b>And so psych came from this need for</b><b>businesses to have privacy when they're</b><b>using these GPT tools.</b><b>And what better way to have privacy than</b><b>to have stuff that stays onshore.</b><b>And so because we do it with Microsoft</b><b>Azure, they bought half of open AI, or</b><b>they, you know, they're</b><b>the biggest shareholder.</b><b>And so they get access to the same</b><b>models, which means that in the Sydney</b><b>service, the Australian servers, because</b><b>we're using that, it's privacy preserving</b><b>when you're talking to the AI, you're not</b><b>talking to open AI and sending your</b><b>queries overseas, it stays here.</b><b>And then another thing we did was that</b><b>using Azure services, we put on there</b><b>like a server or a vector</b><b>database that sits on there.</b><b>So we're not relying on third parties,</b><b>we're doing our own using open source</b><b>tools that we've had to piece together.</b><b>But it means it's all in corporate</b><b>Australia is just safe</b><b>that it's here onshore.</b><b>So that's the main thing.</b><b>Which is the biggest risk.</b><b>That's the biggest risk</b><b>when it comes to AI, right?</b><b>It's security.</b><b>It's where's your what's</b><b>your data being used for?</b><b>What is it?</b><b>How is it being used?</b><b>And we've seen a lot of companies that</b><b>they do this where they make it private</b><b>in whatever way, shape or form.</b><b>Some are even doing</b><b>stuff where it's on prem.</b><b>And I think, okay, you can do that.</b><b>But we're going back to</b><b>pre cloud kind of days.</b><b>It's a bit harder to think about that.</b><b>But look, someone doing it is fine.</b><b>This is our way of tackling it.</b><b>Which is funny thing you say, because a</b><b>lot of companies now are</b><b>moving away from cloud.</b><b>And there's like a big movement to push</b><b>away from cloud because of</b><b>those risks that it's caused.</b><b>Even the cost of the environment as well,</b><b>like just these huge cloud servers.</b><b>So businesses are starting</b><b>to pull this stuff internally.</b><b>It's not just because of AI, but for many</b><b>other myriad of reasons.</b><b>No, I think I think</b><b>it's a very good point.</b><b>And we've seen it in blockchain as well,</b><b>because that's like a super intensive</b><b>kind of space by way of background.</b><b>And people should probably</b><b>know what you do, what I do.</b><b>I was going to say, we've gone straight</b><b>to the talking and</b><b>sneaky plugs before we start.</b><b>The intros and stuff are good.</b><b>But this is us.</b><b>Quick way of background, because there's</b><b>just so much things to drop in terms of</b><b>knowledge that we want</b><b>to share and discuss here.</b><b>Which is the point of why we're here.</b><b>This is like...</b><b>Exactly.</b><b>Let's get it out there.</b><b>Background is in data, working in data</b><b>science and financial markets and then</b><b>also getting into blockchain.</b><b>But just on that note with the blockchain</b><b>thing before coming into AI, blockchain</b><b>was seeing that kind of stuff where it's</b><b>like energy intensive.</b><b>But I think one of the big arguments is</b><b>that with most things going to green</b><b>energy, if the sources of information...</b><b>Sorry, the sources of power are green,</b><b>then the energy</b><b>concern isn't so much there.</b><b>But I do get it that some are looking to</b><b>find ways because</b><b>we're not fully there yet.</b><b>100%.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>100%.</b><b>And Chris, what do you do?</b><b>Why are you here?</b><b>I feel like you sort of</b><b>like spiraled off what you did.</b><b>You said your background.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Didn't talk about not centralized.</b><b>Oh, yeah.</b><b>I mean, they're there.</b><b>Not centralized.</b><b>So I do wear a few hats.</b><b>You do?</b><b>As you know.</b><b>You do some amazing things.</b><b>Networks and businesses.</b><b>I wouldn't say they're amazing.</b><b>No, no, no.</b><b>They're pretty fun.</b><b>Like, I don't do compliments that well.</b><b>Like, I don't know what to do with my</b><b>hands when there's a compliment.</b><b>Where do I put my face like this?</b><b>Like, what do I do?</b><b>Thanks, guys.</b><b>Thanks, guys.</b><b>So, yeah, we do a few</b><b>things that are not centralized.</b><b>So currently, by way of background is</b><b>that we are a venture studio and we build</b><b>in blockchain and AI.</b><b>So we are Toro and I.</b><b>We work in data science in London.</b><b>I'm an investment bank, Canaccord.</b><b>And then we I moved back here, worked at</b><b>the ASX and did other things, head of</b><b>technology for an</b><b>accounting firm, et cetera.</b><b>And then our true</b><b>moved over here as well.</b><b>So what was fun was getting into the</b><b>blockchain space and doing the AI stuff.</b><b>And so we build in that.</b><b>So venture studio means that we're</b><b>builders of products.</b><b>We create things that are used by our</b><b>clients, like either we help them build</b><b>their startup and their projects or we're</b><b>building our own, such as</b><b>what we're doing with psych.</b><b>And then on the side from that, like I</b><b>run an association called the</b><b>Australian DeFi Association.</b><b>And I was also former president of the</b><b>Data Science and AI</b><b>Association just for fun.</b><b>You know, there's never too</b><b>many things that you can do.</b><b>I don't have much on the way of life.</b><b>So that's awesome.</b><b>That's pretty.</b><b>You've got an incredible background and</b><b>I've enjoyed working with you and seeing</b><b>the businesses that you have</b><b>grow as well as the networks.</b><b>We've been working together, been helping</b><b>out with that as much as I can and seeing</b><b>us evolve to what it is.</b><b>It's pretty awesome.</b><b>And we have known each</b><b>other for a bit longer.</b><b>Long time.</b><b>We've only worked</b><b>together in the last two years.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But our lives crossed with our two close</b><b>friends of ours and the</b><b>relationships that they had.</b><b>And we've become mates ever since.</b><b>Yeah, absolutely.</b><b>So it's good.</b><b>Small, small world.</b><b>We've known each</b><b>other for a little while.</b><b>So, yeah.</b><b>And then, you know, you told me before we</b><b>even started working together about what</b><b>you did and it just went over my head.</b><b>But the audience.</b><b>The easiest way to summarize what I do.</b><b>I've always been in digital production</b><b>and user experience, which has been</b><b>probably my latter part of my career.</b><b>So similar to the stuff that you're</b><b>talking about that you do now, I've been</b><b>helping businesses, organizations,</b><b>corporates, small, medium and large to</b><b>develop products, get them to market.</b><b>And in sort of over the last sort of 10</b><b>years, very heavily focusing on that</b><b>customer experience element.</b><b>How do you create products that are</b><b>tailored to the needs of both the market,</b><b>the customers and the business and making</b><b>sure that there is that product centric</b><b>mindset in how they deliver stuff.</b><b>So, yeah, quite technical.</b><b>Always about always about process and how</b><b>you get from A to B</b><b>as quickly as possible.</b><b>And you helped us out when we were</b><b>starting the association, one of the OG</b><b>members of the</b><b>different device association.</b><b>And you also helped us out when we were</b><b>trying to figure out not centralized and</b><b>what that was going to look like.</b><b>So, you know, I can definitely vouch for</b><b>the work that does branding marketing.</b><b>It all fits into that equation.</b><b>Go to market everything.</b><b>It's been good fun.</b><b>It's been a journey.</b><b>And I think that's that's the key thing.</b><b>Like everyone comes into this this</b><b>hyper-A.I. space from different angles.</b><b>And it's all about like something that I</b><b>say a lot to people is I haven't seen any</b><b>role where I doesn't when I say I I'm</b><b>talking generative A.I.</b><b>because there is the difference between</b><b>the traditional stuff that's been around</b><b>for a while and continues in terms of</b><b>hardcore like data science, machine</b><b>learning, all that kind of stuff.</b><b>Generative A.I. more for like the the the</b><b>GPTs and the large language models and</b><b>that newer kind of stuff that we're</b><b>experimenting with and finding some</b><b>interesting things on.</b><b>I think the key is that you come into it</b><b>from an angle like</b><b>you're trying to use it.</b><b>You guys are using it in your day jobs in</b><b>terms of improvements for</b><b>clients and what you deliver.</b><b>We're doing the same thing.</b><b>Yeah. Yeah.</b><b>Well, I think like obviously the core</b><b>thing that we want to talk about over</b><b>over the myriad of episodes, I hope that</b><b>we are able to do together is is focusing</b><b>on the trends in the market, the</b><b>technologies that are out there.</b><b>And obviously the</b><b>biggest thing right now is A.I.</b><b>So it's probably going to take over a lot</b><b>of our discussions and you and I both</b><b>heavily involved in that from working</b><b>with our clients, our customers and</b><b>utilization of it for ourselves to the.</b><b>To the topics that are being very</b><b>interested in around is what is A.I. as</b><b>it currently stands because I know as we</b><b>hinted before, A.I. has been around in</b><b>kind of the traditional</b><b>sense for quite a while.</b><b>You can go back and like Grammarly is a</b><b>good example of a learning</b><b>tool that helps people write.</b><b>That's been around for years.</b><b>We've got things like Spotify that have</b><b>had the basic algorithms or kind of like</b><b>that narrow intelligence for right.</b><b>Netflix has the end</b><b>terms out form system.</b><b>This narrow intelligence</b><b>has been around for a while.</b><b>And then along comes chat GPT.</b><b>Right. And there's always been this fear</b><b>mongering around A.I. and itself chat GPT</b><b>pops in suddenly that barrier drops a</b><b>little bit and everyone's like, I'm going</b><b>to start using this.</b><b>This seems a bit interesting.</b><b>It actually impacts and gives me some</b><b>some experience that I haven't</b><b>had before in relation to A.I.</b><b>So this L.L.M. obviously is large</b><b>language models and it is I guess it kind</b><b>of touches into that</b><b>general intelligence format.</b><b>But it's technically still</b><b>a form of machine learning.</b><b>It's still an an algorithm that</b><b>accumulates insights, accumulates data,</b><b>accumulates everything out there in the</b><b>net, stuff that we've written, stuff that</b><b>it's heard, listened to, etc.</b><b>And it makes a prediction on what the</b><b>output is based on your input.</b><b>So I guess the question is that I put out</b><b>there is like, is it A.I. in its truest</b><b>sense or is there a next is there a next</b><b>stage to what we're going to experience</b><b>quite soon to become what</b><b>A.I. is in the movies or?</b><b>Yeah, I guess some very simple way for</b><b>super A.I. you might say or some sort of</b><b>proper artificial intelligence.</b><b>Super intelligence.</b><b>A.G.I. when we get that general</b><b>intelligence that you can just give it</b><b>anything and without with little</b><b>instructions, just like a</b><b>human, it can pick up and learn.</b><b>But in terms of where we're up to right</b><b>now, it's this world where we're figuring</b><b>out just with the the G.P.T. is</b><b>generative pre-trained</b><b>transformers is what stands for.</b><b>And you can look that up.</b><b>We're figuring out like what the extent</b><b>and limits of it are.</b><b>And there's arguments over like does it</b><b>do reasoning or not?</b><b>But just if we go back to the basics,</b><b>think about and we're old</b><b>enough to remember this.</b><b>So giving away our ages here.</b><b>But the old Nokia and other phones, we</b><b>have text, predictive text, and it will</b><b>predict the next letter.</b><b>This is like that, but on steroids</b><b>because it's got so</b><b>much more information.</b><b>Jen, the predictive text has like a</b><b>library of potential words like if you</b><b>type in H, it's likely going to be that</b><b>it could be something else.</b><b>But predictive text depends on the input</b><b>that you're putting in and then the</b><b>output is based on that.</b><b>So when you're asking a query at this</b><b>larger scale with G.P.T.s, you're giving</b><b>it a lot more context by the query.</b><b>So if I said, what is blockchain?</b><b>It's going to look through its database</b><b>of seeing, OK, I've seen this.</b><b>What is blockchain thing before or</b><b>something very much like it?</b><b>And here is what it predicts is the next</b><b>word sentence paragraph, paragraphs, even</b><b>depending on how much you're asking for.</b><b>And because they've fed it so much</b><b>information, what they can do is create</b><b>various different features.</b><b>They have like it's it's not even a 3D</b><b>grid because there's so many different</b><b>features like the sentence.</b><b>What is blockchain?</b><b>OK, so there's a</b><b>technology element there.</b><b>There's a question element there or like</b><b>the cat is in the tree and</b><b>the dog is on the ground.</b><b>Those two sentences would</b><b>be very closely related.</b><b>Yeah, because it's animal, it's</b><b>descriptive position versus something</b><b>where I might say that the cat is in the</b><b>in the tree and I'm doing work.</b><b>Now, those two are very far apart or</b><b>further apart, but they might be related</b><b>on one thing, which is describing persons</b><b>and animals and stuff.</b><b>So there might be relations there.</b><b>So if you imagine that with all the</b><b>things that's been trained on from</b><b>whatever has scraped legal or not on the</b><b>Internet, it's basically showing us that</b><b>there are patterns to language.</b><b>Examine mathematical patterns to</b><b>language, which I think is like the</b><b>biggest breakthrough because you can get</b><b>it to seem like it's reasoning.</b><b>But it's basically just math.</b><b>It's a probability output that's coming.</b><b>Like I've got a 99 percent probability.</b><b>This is what the next</b><b>paragraphs and words should be.</b><b>And to clarify, it's the mathematical</b><b>solution there is around the</b><b>implementation of it in</b><b>a technological sense.</b><b>I think language is a math has been</b><b>around for quite a while.</b><b>It's like it is how you get country</b><b>speaking in certain accents and like that</b><b>that that pattern has always exist.</b><b>Yeah. But translating into something that</b><b>can then predict what is going to happen</b><b>from a technical</b><b>perspective is is that's brand new.</b><b>It is quite amazing.</b><b>It's you know, we didn't we've had these</b><b>ideas before, but we just haven't had the</b><b>technology like they had ideas for A.I.</b><b>and all these things for decades, but</b><b>they just didn't have</b><b>the technology at the time.</b><b>That's always been the limitation limited</b><b>by and tied back by and grounded by the</b><b>technology you have at the time.</b><b>But what's interesting is that because</b><b>we've seen that this is how it works, you</b><b>think about like who's really good at</b><b>language lawyers, anthropologists, maybe like have a good understanding.</b><b>History and if they're academic language,</b><b>like if if you think about what we can do</b><b>with these tools where you can ask</b><b>questions and stuff, but we can actually</b><b>get them to do actions if they're tied to</b><b>say Python or R or SQL.</b><b>You can instruct it just like you can</b><b>with chat, GPT with function calling or</b><b>with Claude Sonnet 3.5,</b><b>which is the new crazy tool.</b><b>It's amazing. Absolutely.</b><b>Absolutely. Check it out.</b><b>Like, yeah, especially if you're in any</b><b>kind of tech development, UX research,</b><b>prototyping is this Claude 3.5 years.</b><b>It's a little we'll show it on screen,</b><b>like on another show,</b><b>like live and stuff.</b><b>So you'll be a lot of episodes where I</b><b>think we'll go through, go through some</b><b>new releases of things,</b><b>technologies that have come out.</b><b>It's crazy. And let's talk about that.</b><b>But like if you think about how the</b><b>future is, and Andre Carpathi, who's a</b><b>great AI researcher, he said that the</b><b>best coding language</b><b>is going to be English.</b><b>Well, I mean, he just means language</b><b>because obviously you can do it in other</b><b>languages and stuff as well.</b><b>But just by being able to type and think</b><b>out your thoughts and put them on paper,</b><b>like you'll be able to get.</b><b>And if you think about the progression of</b><b>of coding, it has into a sense like it</b><b>started to move in that direction.</b><b>Obviously, the introduction of a lot of</b><b>times have like</b><b>skyrocketed that immensely.</b><b>But if you look at, you know, we started</b><b>off with C++ languages, which then moved</b><b>into, you know, things like HTML, where</b><b>we started defining, you know, types of</b><b>what it is that you need</b><b>to create with language.</b><b>And then things like React and Java,</b><b>where this is literally almost word</b><b>creation code language.</b><b>Yeah. What's the next</b><b>iteration of that? It is all right.</b><b>Let's just type in a sentence and hope</b><b>that it gives me an output that I want.</b><b>And I think it would work well when</b><b>you've got that kind of programmatic type</b><b>thinking where you think about like</b><b>laying out the ingredients of, you know,</b><b>a problem that you're trying to solve.</b><b>Well, if this is the project I'm working</b><b>on, I'm going to need these ingredients</b><b>like client feedback.</b><b>I'm going to need these ingredients, my</b><b>style of writing. I'm going</b><b>to need these ingredients.</b><b>Chris is the lead consultant. So Chris is</b><b>ethos and thoughts on AI.</b><b>I'm going to need that as an ingredient.</b><b>And then the cake that I get to make is</b><b>from knowing how to piece those</b><b>ingredients together.</b><b>That's what we get to do now. We get to</b><b>be programmatic with how we create</b><b>solutions using language.</b><b>So it's a fun place to be in.</b><b>It's pretty cool. Never thought in a</b><b>million years that we'd be doing this is</b><b>how we'd be doing it.</b><b>And not seeing not really contemplating</b><b>or like comprehending, sorry, the word of</b><b>mine is that how fast</b><b>it would suddenly change.</b><b>Like it's crazy.</b><b>It's crazy. November. Boom. Out comes</b><b>this LM a little bit. You know, it's kind</b><b>of fun. It's kind of cool.</b><b>I remember showing it to a couple of</b><b>friends who were pulling together some</b><b>job descriptions for their business.</b><b>And they're like, fuck, this takes</b><b>forever. Oh, we spent</b><b>so much time with them.</b><b>I'm like, mate, last week this thing came</b><b>out. Check this out. Got</b><b>them to write in the JD. Boom.</b><b>Suddenly within a page, they are now</b><b>there. It turned their half</b><b>a day job into 30 minutes.</b><b>And it's like, well, what do they do with</b><b>the rest of their time?</b><b>Yeah. And now, you know, we've got chat</b><b>to be for which came out a couple months</b><b>or a month ago and then exactly cloud.</b><b>And we got all the other video, AI</b><b>generation tools. Now</b><b>the image generation tools.</b><b>It's just accelerated beyond</b><b>comprehension on that note, though.</b><b>Just jumping in that topic of like the</b><b>video ones, because this is a lesson for</b><b>like we're both like</b><b>startup founders and stuff.</b><b>And I guess a lot of what we people we</b><b>work with is in the startup space.</b><b>We're in the freaking</b><b>startup hub right now.</b><b>Yeah. But they released Sora. So open</b><b>AI's version, which wowed the Internet.</b><b>And they released that on a day when I</b><b>think Google was coming</b><b>out with an announcement.</b><b>Then they released Sora and it just</b><b>downplayed everything Google did.</b><b>And so they released the video, but it</b><b>wasn't the actual product.</b><b>And so there's this.</b><b>Everyone's been waiting for it.</b><b>And then all of a sudden, Luma comes out</b><b>and runway, which is so Luma's got their</b><b>thing called Dream</b><b>Machine, which is not as, I guess,</b><b>in some ways, maybe not as good looking</b><b>as like Sora, but at least</b><b>you can use it right now. Right.</b><b>Versus like Sora from open AI, which</b><b>isn't even released yet.</b><b>And then Runway, which is a company</b><b>that's been already doing</b><b>text to video for a little while.</b><b>They had Runway 2. Version</b><b>3 came out a few days later.</b><b>So like all of a sudden, it's like, wow,</b><b>we now have access to this competition,</b><b>like of getting stuff to mind.</b><b>Actually, it begs the other question that</b><b>I listened to a few things the other day.</b><b>I think it's brought up in the Ferg, it</b><b>was brought up in A16Z, brought MKHB has</b><b>talked about it on his YouTube channel.</b><b>It's that idea of AI. Is it</b><b>a product or is it a feature?</b><b>And it came all about, I think, you know,</b><b>you had Samsung releasing</b><b>their note 24s recently.</b><b>Galaxy Note 24 note, whatever it is.</b><b>I want to give a whole bunch of AI tools</b><b>all plastered into it.</b><b>And then, you know, just two weeks ago,</b><b>we had Apple releasing all their AI</b><b>features or announcing</b><b>their AI features into the...</b><b>And calling it Apple intelligence.</b><b>And calling it Apple</b><b>intelligence. Exactly right.</b><b>And those tools, those features that have</b><b>been released have made a lot of</b><b>applications or products within the App</b><b>Store almost redundant.</b><b>Like we've got now these tools within the</b><b>phone to edit images.</b><b>We have the texting features built into</b><b>their messaging apps.</b><b>We have the image generation tools within</b><b>there to create meme photos</b><b>or like pictures of myself.</b><b>And all of that stuff is now embedded</b><b>into the phone as features.</b><b>And if you think about even how chat GPT</b><b>has evolved as it starts, it's now</b><b>becoming the core or the underpinning of</b><b>a lot of large organizations products</b><b>that they're releasing to market.</b><b>Apple is one of them.</b><b>We have even Microsoft uses</b><b>it obviously with CoPilot, etc.</b><b>So these large AI businesses are now</b><b>becoming feature subsets</b><b>of other larger products.</b><b>So basically question, is AI going to</b><b>stay as a product for a lot of</b><b>organizations or is it going to become a</b><b>sort of a requirement, a feature set of</b><b>all these things that are coming out?</b><b>I think it'll go sway both ways.</b><b>Yeah, agreed. But I think one is going to</b><b>dominate the other, right?</b><b>I think like many a good lawyer that we</b><b>deal with and work with and even</b><b>interviewed in the blockchain space as</b><b>well as AI, the answer I will</b><b>repeat from them is it depends.</b><b>It's all contextual and I think different</b><b>scenarios are going to dictate different</b><b>things because what something that when I</b><b>want to think about this, there's a</b><b>couple of things that come to mind where</b><b>it's like, well, what's the point of</b><b>building something when, you know, that</b><b>they just kind of come</b><b>out with a feature and</b><b>one thing is that they're not there yet</b><b>or they haven't been there yet.</b><b>So it was right for these companies to</b><b>just go out and move fast and technically</b><b>break things and stuff and iterate and</b><b>get something to</b><b>market and make it useful.</b><b>And if they've done that very well, but</b><b>then it's a game that</b><b>you have to keep playing.</b><b>You can't just stop and rest because</b><b>there is this looming pressure that the</b><b>Googles, the Amazons even and the</b><b>Microsofts are going to</b><b>create something in Apple.</b><b>And then another thing I remember that,</b><b>you know, you look at forms like Google</b><b>forms, Microsoft's forms and stuff, and</b><b>then you've got type form as a separate</b><b>company that's worth a couple of billion</b><b>dollars and they make forms really nice</b><b>type forms are great.</b><b>Right. Now, the argument would be, well,</b><b>if Google or Microsoft just made theirs</b><b>just as easy and good,</b><b>would it take over type forms?</b><b>Because type forms, I think for me, its</b><b>selling point is its</b><b>features and how easy it is to use.</b><b>But even then, like, I think there's</b><b>still a strong argument for these other</b><b>companies to still exist, but they've</b><b>just got to keep on innovating.</b><b>It's not one of those things where I</b><b>think you can just rest if you do</b><b>challenge what you know is</b><b>going to come from the behemoths.</b><b>I think I think you're spot on there.</b><b>I can I come out from obviously that UX</b><b>lens of things where right now we're in</b><b>this sense of people don't really know</b><b>what the future of AI</b><b>is or how it even fits.</b><b>Within their businesses and their</b><b>organizations, their companies, etc.</b><b>Right. Where everyone's</b><b>still in this learning phase.</b><b>And the only way you can get through</b><b>these learning phases is by having these</b><b>products to test and understand how it</b><b>fits in with your ecosystem, how it uses</b><b>your businesses, etc.</b><b>But as we settle down, as you're saying,</b><b>as we come to the bottom of that trough,</b><b>that curve of that innovation curve,</b><b>we're going to start seeing things more</b><b>transition into that feature set.</b><b>And you'll probably find that the large</b><b>corporations, large businesses who are</b><b>already integrating it, they'll be the</b><b>ones that stay on top</b><b>with those as features.</b><b>And you'll have this sprinkle of products</b><b>for the underlings of the world who don't</b><b>want to pay the big</b><b>bucks, use the big products.</b><b>Right. So you'll have this mixture of the</b><b>two, which is exactly what we see with</b><b>every other thing in the world.</b><b>The type form is a perfect example.</b><b>It's a multi-billion dollar business, not</b><b>because it focuses on enterprise because</b><b>it's able to focus on people who don't</b><b>want to spend all these enterprise.</b><b>Software solutions, they just need</b><b>something to fit that one purpose within</b><b>their business and it</b><b>does it really well.</b><b>Adoption is like great for them.</b><b>And I think that no matter what it is</b><b>that you're doing, like you really need</b><b>to think about what is the</b><b>problem that you're solving.</b><b>And if it actually needs a eye to begin</b><b>with, because that's</b><b>another part of the hype.</b><b>It's like you see it's, you know, what is</b><b>often attributed is a blockchain hype.</b><b>So companies putting</b><b>blockchain in their announcement.</b><b>So changing their name, even the Long</b><b>Island I.S.T. company, change it to the</b><b>Long Island</b><b>blockchain, something, something.</b><b>And, you know, you see the share prices</b><b>shoot up because algorithms that are</b><b>doing trading, see a signal and go, oh,</b><b>change your name or it's in the</b><b>announcements, pick up that little signal</b><b>and buy, buy, buy more.</b><b>But do we just release the secret of how</b><b>to make your share price go up?</b><b>I mean, I think, you know, whether the</b><b>SEC or like here in Australia, ASIC wants</b><b>to take a look at information, you know,</b><b>and you've got to like be realistic</b><b>behind what it is there.</b><b>But I'm just saying that whether it's</b><b>listed companies or just private ones</b><b>just putting in their decks and, you</b><b>know, their website saying that, hey, we</b><b>do AI stuff now, is it?</b><b>And this is a question. I think it's it's</b><b>like we've got this really new tool that</b><b>unlocks a lot of capabilities for</b><b>consultants and especially consultants.</b><b>I think that's one of the greatest</b><b>things, one of the key areas for us that</b><b>it's going to open up.</b><b>And there's a reason behind this with</b><b>what we're doing with psych.</b><b>I know that there's</b><b>going to be end users.</b><b>That's fine. But the ones that are going</b><b>to be powered the most are the</b><b>consultants, because not everyone is</b><b>going to have the time to go through and,</b><b>you know, do things with chat GPT, even</b><b>all like tools like it.</b><b>But consultants are they're going to</b><b>their game is going to be leveled up so</b><b>much more because of tools like this.</b><b>And it makes sense. And the reason I say</b><b>that is because if we go back to the</b><b>maybe this for another</b><b>episode, how are these tools work?</b><b>They're probability models. The reason</b><b>they hallucinate hallucinations is</b><b>basically a matter of you not</b><b>feeding it the right context.</b><b>You're asking about Apple, but not</b><b>specifying, you know, it's Apple</b><b>computers or whatever and not telling it</b><b>the right steps to execute.</b><b>So context and execution, if you can</b><b>control those, you can control the</b><b>outputs and reduce hallucinations.</b><b>But when people don't do that and they</b><b>just let it be and they don't even do</b><b>checking at the end,</b><b>they don't validate it.</b><b>That's what leads to hallucinations like</b><b>lawyers not checking the work and seeing</b><b>these cases as precedent</b><b>put in front of a judge.</b><b>Now, experts come in because if you don't</b><b>know the field and you're asking a</b><b>question, you're not going to know if</b><b>that's right or not.</b><b>There are ways that you can use AI to</b><b>help you better validate something. But</b><b>the ones that will</b><b>best validate are experts.</b><b>So as much as I think that this will the</b><b>rising tide will lift all these boats, so</b><b>to speak, I think the ones that will gain</b><b>a lot more from it are the experts,</b><b>because they're the ones that would be</b><b>able to quickly tell at a glance or from</b><b>reading something that,</b><b>yeah, this is good or it's B.S.</b><b>And it's not the thing's fault. It's</b><b>because the expert or whoever's using it</b><b>didn't put in the right context, the</b><b>right documents or notes and didn't tell</b><b>it the right instructions.</b><b>But if they do, they're the ones that</b><b>will quickly validate and they can do so</b><b>much more with their time.</b><b>So I think there's an unlocking of</b><b>capital, human capital, expert capital</b><b>that comes from this.</b><b>So it's quite exciting.</b><b>I think it's interesting. It's an</b><b>interesting point. I can't remember where</b><b>I heard this story from.</b><b>But it's that idea of a new thing comes</b><b>out, new technology comes out and</b><b>suddenly there's a lot of fear that, oh,</b><b>my God, this is going to take our jobs,</b><b>this is going to do all this stuff.</b><b>And to an extent, that is true. But it</b><b>also unlocks a whole bunch of</b><b>other jobs and opportunities.</b><b>And it happens time and time again. It</b><b>happened when the car first hit the</b><b>market or actually when the wheel first</b><b>hit and people stopped using horses,</b><b>people were like, you know, who's going</b><b>to clean up the poop on the streets now?</b><b>There's no poop. We've got cars like</b><b>what? And they just moved on to do</b><b>different and more innovative things.</b><b>And the industry builds around that as</b><b>well, because cars were first coming out.</b><b>We didn't have paved</b><b>roads. It was cobblestone.</b><b>And so there were complaints about, oh,</b><b>look, the cars is rough. It's bumpy.</b><b>They're not that good. Or they can't move</b><b>that fast. I'll just</b><b>take a horse. It's faster.</b><b>But it's because we didn't build the</b><b>infrastructure that helps that thing go</b><b>faster. And, you know, the figurative,</b><b>like paving the way, they</b><b>literally paved the roads.</b><b>And we've got trucks and motorbikes and</b><b>other forms of transport. So there's</b><b>always going to be the naysayers, though,</b><b>like we have with blockchain.</b><b>We have with AI. But it's fascinating to</b><b>think like what the future. This is the</b><b>worst that AI is going</b><b>to be like right now.</b><b>It's only going to get better. And this</b><b>is where I do challenge the consulting</b><b>mentality, because as AI does get better,</b><b>it's understanding of how to respond and</b><b>having those incorrect or inaccurate</b><b>responses will decrease drastically.</b><b>And it will get to a point where it will</b><b>become usable for all. But I think it's</b><b>just a matter of it's a</b><b>matter of when, to be honest.</b><b>Yeah, exactly. It's not if, but when,</b><b>when, really. What excites you about, you</b><b>know, this future, like we're</b><b>here in the middle of the year.</b><b>It's literally three days to 30 June. So</b><b>we're literally mid 2024. What are you</b><b>looking forward to in terms of like the</b><b>rest of 2024 when it comes to using AI?</b><b>For me, it is about the experience. And</b><b>I'm not saying that just because of what</b><b>I do, but in terms of what he does.</b><b>It is what I do. But it is. It's more</b><b>around right now. AI is in a very</b><b>disconnected state where you have a tool</b><b>that serves, you know, an LLM, you have a</b><b>tool that serves imaging.</b><b>And, you know, Apple and even Samsung</b><b>have made some stripes. So now you put it</b><b>all in your phones. Now you have this one</b><b>device that has a whole</b><b>bunch of AI tools on it.</b><b>But they're still in a very disconnected</b><b>state of usability. So you've got things</b><b>like CoPilot, which have obviously, you</b><b>know, we've got Microsoft releasing their</b><b>AI laptops, which are taking that step</b><b>forward around that.</b><b>If you're okay for it to. If</b><b>you're okay. Yeah, exactly.</b><b>No, they got their, their, funnily</b><b>enough, that feature called recall,</b><b>they're recalling it.</b><b>They're recalling the recall feature. I</b><b>love it. It's a total recall. Total.</b><b>There we go. That's</b><b>the reference we want.</b><b>So the, the experience is still</b><b>disconnected though, right? And even if</b><b>it is, even if, you know, CoPilot,</b><b>obviously there's a bit of a personal</b><b>level of information, but you can still</b><b>have it where you may go into my phone.</b><b>I may type a message and instantly the</b><b>predictive text starts occurring with the</b><b>AI tool integration. Currently you have</b><b>to turn it on. I have to go, I have to</b><b>type and then go, hey, AI, do your thing.</b><b>It's not an integrated experience with</b><b>what I do. And then I'll go switch to an</b><b>image and then I open up my pictures and</b><b>I want to edit something and boom. I have</b><b>to press the button to interact with it.</b><b>Currently there isn't a situation where</b><b>no matter what I do, this AI feature</b><b>isn't enhancing everything without me</b><b>telling it to. Yeah.</b><b>So I'm excited to get to a point where</b><b>that experience becomes much more</b><b>seamless to a point where I don't even</b><b>know it's really occurring. Yeah.</b><b>But not to an extent where it's like</b><b>interrupting or knowing about my personal</b><b>engagements, like sure you can turn that</b><b>on and off and everyone's got their</b><b>opinions. Some don't care. Some, some do.</b><b>Probably many do, but it's about how it</b><b>predicts or understands the actions of</b><b>things that occur to then make that</b><b>experience that you're about to do more</b><b>seamless. Absolutely.</b><b>That's the part I'm excited about. I</b><b>think that that is probably coming sooner</b><b>rather than later. Oh, definitely.</b><b>For some, and I say some because it is</b><b>all context dependent, the ones that will</b><b>come for sooner are the ones that open up</b><b>and let it look at a whole lot of what</b><b>they're doing because I mean, yeah, we</b><b>laugh at the whole recall thing.</b><b>But if you had an AI that understood how</b><b>you use and do your work when you're in</b><b>work mode and maybe you can switch it off</b><b>for non-work mode, you're going to get</b><b>these inputs that are</b><b>profound in terms of what you do.</b><b>Like just telling it, here is a project</b><b>that I'm doing. Okay. So another really</b><b>key point I think is important to say.</b><b>And for people in the audience to think</b><b>about is that we had this saying that</b><b>like, I was going to like take over jobs</b><b>and then to quell that we said, it's not</b><b>going to take over jobs.</b><b>It's going to take over tasks or the</b><b>mundane tasks. You don't want to do that.</b><b>It just tough and you know, you'll have</b><b>AI doing that. But what it led to, I</b><b>think is that people then saw it as, oh,</b><b>it's only going to take over tasks.</b><b>And so they don't use it in terms of</b><b>thinking, well, how can it help with</b><b>strategy or like other things that I need</b><b>to do, which they use.</b><b>I might think of clever work and ad hoc</b><b>work. And yet it's quite powerful that if</b><b>you told it, here is the problem. Here is</b><b>what I've thought about for the solution.</b><b>And that's all I've</b><b>thought about as a human.</b><b>It's going to tell you more things</b><b>because it's built off all this</b><b>collective knowledge that you don't have.</b><b>So I think that's exactly how I use a</b><b>full of my research and</b><b>interactions that I do when I.</b><b>Conduct a bunch of research when it comes</b><b>to products validation. I will usually</b><b>nine times out of 10, depending on what</b><b>the client needs, have my own assumptions</b><b>based on all that data.</b><b>And then AI comes in on top and either</b><b>validates or adds something that I would</b><b>have definitely missed or anyone would</b><b>have missed because of one little thing</b><b>that someone said. Perfect.</b><b>And that is that's the power of how it</b><b>builds on what I do.</b><b>I think that that's that's all right.</b><b>That's definitely one workflow as well as</b><b>on the other end of the spectrum, the</b><b>automation of those mundane tasks.</b><b>I think it can be both. Porque no los</b><b>dos. Yeah. Why can't we have both? Why</b><b>can't we have the episode title?</b><b>Porque no los dos. Why can't we have</b><b>both? Well, I'm conscious of time. There</b><b>was a few newsy things you wanted to get</b><b>through as anything</b><b>you want to cover off.</b><b>Yeah, I think we'll cover it in the next</b><b>episode and stuff. We'll bring some</b><b>examples of how we've been using Claude</b><b>Sonnet because that is unlike you just</b><b>getting code and you know, you're asking</b><b>chat gbt like how can I do</b><b>something like with this?</b><b>I want to create this. Give me the code</b><b>for it. Then you have</b><b>to go off and do it.</b><b>Claude is actually giving you a preview</b><b>window where it's doing it for you. So</b><b>got some exciting things to show there.</b><b>The whole music kind of space. You're</b><b>going to see an intro from this, which</b><b>will probably be AI generated.</b><b>So that'll be interesting. And then just</b><b>the video stuff. We haven't had time to</b><b>experiment with that, but we'll</b><b>definitely want to talk about what is</b><b>happening in that space.</b><b>Really exciting stuff for clients and</b><b>people that are just generally interested</b><b>in this. You don't have to be a client to</b><b>watch the show. Yeah, exactly.</b><b>And there's lots of tools out there</b><b>beyond the stuff that is, you know,</b><b>Claude's and the new chat gbt for and</b><b>there's lots of other things out there</b><b>that are existing that are</b><b>empowering us through AI.</b><b>What I learned about recently is cursor,</b><b>which is a, it's a really powerful way to</b><b>assist how you develop.</b><b>And so as a developer, a coder, it</b><b>supports the actions that you do and</b><b>makes recommendations, corrections or</b><b>errors as well as also doing trialing</b><b>validation, corrections and fixing up</b><b>mistakes that you may be making.</b><b>So rather than taking over, it's</b><b>supporting the actions that you do. And</b><b>someone was telling me a story how they</b><b>over the weekend, there was someone fresh</b><b>out of uni doing develop work.</b><b>They sat down with this tool overlaid and</b><b>pretty much trained them up within a</b><b>weekend how to do coding</b><b>that they hadn't done before.</b><b>And so it's, it's, there's this, you</b><b>know, these new waves of tools that</b><b>aren't just taking over like chat gbt and</b><b>he was taken over and voted comments, but</b><b>also just supporting and improving how we</b><b>do work without</b><b>interrupting it, which is pretty cool.</b><b>So I'd love to talk about more of those</b><b>in the future. Definitely. Yeah. We'll,</b><b>we'll bring that up. We'll see some like</b><b>little news articles and</b><b>some animations here. I'm sure.</b><b>But yeah, thanks very much for this first</b><b>episode. Yeah. Nice one. Make sure to</b><b>subscribe. Yeah. Catch you</b><b>next time guys. See you guys.</b>

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